Sir Peter Beck is the founder and CEO of Rocket Lab, the New Zealand-based company that is poised to challenge SpaceX's near-monopoly over the commercial space industry.
Guest | Sir Peter Beck, Founder & CEO, Rocket Lab [@RocketLab]
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/peter-beck-ab7b63b/
On Twitter | https://x.com/Peter_J_Beck
Host | Matthew S Williams
On ITSPmagazine 👉 https://itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/matthew-s-williams
______________________
This Episode’s Sponsors
Are you interested in sponsoring an ITSPmagazine Channel?
👉 https://www.itspmagazine.com/sponsor-the-itspmagazine-podcast-network
______________________
Episode Notes
Sir Peter Beck is the founder and CEO of Rocket Lab, the New Zealand-based company that is poised to challenge SpaceX's near-monopoly over the commercial space industry. Their in-house assembly, reusability, end-to-end mission design, and growing family of rockets are bringing a new wave of innovation and cost-effectiveness to the commercial space market!
______________________
Resources
______________________
For more podcast Stories from Space with Matthew S Williams, visit: https://itspmagazine.com/stories-from-space-podcast
CRising Stars: Rocket Lab | A Conversation with Sir Peter Beck | Stories From Space Podcast With Matthew S Williams
Episode 81 - Sir Peter Beck
Matt: [00:00:00] The authors acknowledge that this podcast was recorded on
the traditional unceded lands of the Lekwungen peoples. Hello, and welcome
back to Stories from Space. I'm your host, Matt Williams. Joining me today is
Sir Peter Beck, founder and CEO of Rocket Lab. Sir Peter, thank you for
joining us.
Beck: Cool. Thanks very much, Matthew. Great, uh, great to be here.
Matt: So, naturally, uh, in any interview, I imagine the most common question
that people start off with is to explain their journey. How they came to be,
basically, the CEO of a major commercial space company, and I've heard it
said, and I will repeat it, that you are the company that is poised to challenge
SpaceX's near monopoly.
And this is obviously a very, very big accomplishment. So, what can you tell us
about the road that got you here?
Beck: Well, I would say the road is, [00:01:00] is, uh, is quite a bit different to
kind of more traditional paths, if there is such a thing to rocket company. Um,
but, uh, for as long as I can remember, I was, I was always in really passionate
about two things and, and one was space and one was engineering.
Uh, but I was born in a, in a little town at the very bottom of the South Island of
New Zealand, some 50, 000 people in it. Uh, you, and you couldn't, Pick a place
that was more removed from the space industry that you could possibly
imagine, really. And, uh, uh, I, I, I'd always had aspirations to, uh, to go and
work for NASA because, uh, that, that was, um, you know, that was the place to
be in space.
So, uh, I kind of traveled through my career and, um, Uh, in New Zealand, and I
originally started off doing a tool and die making apprenticeship and became a
tool and die maker and, and really the, the, the impetus for that was, um, there
was no university courses even remotely close to anything to do with rockets or
propulsion even.
So, uh, I was building rocket engines [00:02:00] when I was still at school. Um,
and, uh, and, and just, you know, really needed the hand skills to be able to
build the ever evolving technology. You know, ever increasingly complex
engines and, and pumps and everything that I was trying to do. Um, and, uh, sokind of long story short, um, I ended up at a, uh, a government research lab,
kind of similar to like the American national labs.
And was doing advanced materials and structures, um, mainly composite
structures, supporting things like, you know, wind turbines and the America's
cup boats and all of those kinds of things. But I went on a, on a bit of a rocket
pilgrimage to the United States and, um, I spent a month over there and visited
all the NASA centers that they would let me into.
And all of the, uh, you know, the, the large typical aerospace primes. And, you
know, after that, after that trip, you know, I realized two things, a non degreed
New Zealand foreign national trying to bust into the U. S. space industry is
pretty, pretty much impossible. Um, [00:03:00] and, uh, I did the only logical
thing that could be done, um, at that point was to go back to New Zealand and
just start my own rocket company and started Rocket Lab, uh, way, way back
in, in 2006.
Matt: That was, from what I've read, just biographical information, and, and
your, the history of the company. There, there was obviously a very steep
learning curve at first. There, it began with the, uh, Atli, Atlia sounding rocket,
and test launching, and obviously a very, very challenging time for a
burgeoning company.
Yeah, is it fair to say that there's a lot of failures or mishaps on the road to
successful launches? Yes.
Beck: Yeah, I mean, uh, no doubt. Um, certainly a lot to learn. That's for real.
But, you know, I've always had the philosophy that by the time it's on the pad,
you should be highly confident that it's going to work.
So, yep, we, we certainly, we certainly learned, learned a lot and had to, had to
take a lot of things [00:04:00] back to first principles. You know, we didn't have
a, there was no aerospace industry here to call upon or experts to call upon
about certain things. So, you know, when we were developing Electron, Uh, for
an example, you know, we had to go back to very first principles on, on various
things, which in some respects was, you know, pretty painful.
But in other respects, what it did is it, is it built that knowledge within the
company and the people within the company, um, so that, you know, when it
came to, to really complicated problems, you know, we had that first principle
kind of knowledge base to draw from and, and really understood things really
well.Like there was nothing on the rocket that just magically happened that, you
know, we, that we didn't know why it happened. Um, and that was, that was
super important, you know, for the, for the success of, of, of the projects and the
programs as we, as we went through. So yeah, plenty of learnings, um, you
know, and, and plenty of failures, but, uh, not too many because in this industry
you're one major failure away from extermination.
Um, I think that's one of the things that rocket lab has been able [00:05:00] to
do well is. Be able to take, take large technology risks, especially, but mitigate
them such that they never really occur.
Matt: And I remember the first time I ever reported on a story involving rocket
lab, I believe it was back in 2018. And that's was shortly before the launch of
the humanity star mission.
And yes, I remember reading with interest that the electron rocket at the time
you were leveraging that. Experience you had in smart materials and
composites. And so the cost saving measures were that the electron rocket was
built out of carbon fiber, manufactured in house and, and also had a plugin
payload design.
These were what essentially made it a cost effective way for launching small
sats. And now your company has since turned to retrieval. And I remember
covering that, too, with [00:06:00] some excitement. Yeah. Yep. It started, yeah,
it started with catching it with a helicopter. Yep. But nowadays, you're relying
on parachutes to retrieve the first aid.
Beck: Yeah, correct. Yeah. So, um, you know, the electron vehicle, as you
pointed out, it was unique and innovative in a number of ways. Being all carbon
composite is, is, uh, was certainly a huge advantage. Um, we were the first to
3D print a rocket engine and send it to orbit. Um, so we, we really pioneered,
um, some of the early 3d printing of, of, uh, super, super alloy metallics, um, in,
in, you know, combustion devices and pumps and things.
Uh, so, um, you know, so yeah, there was, there was a lot of firsts and of course
we created the launch range down here in New Zealand with the first private
orbital launch range in the world. And so yeah, there was a lot of firsts and we
didn't do that because we had some obsession with getting, uh, getting
Wikipedia pages.
It was, it was really about. You know, solving the problem object objectively
and how can, how can we build something that, uh, is, is both [00:07:00] thelow, the lowest cost and, and enduring and, and, you know, for the electron
product at one point we were tracking some 140 odd companies looking to try
and build a product of, of, you know, getting to, to, to electron and, you know,
the, the favorite, uh, To win, we were not ordained the preeminent winner for
sure.
Like Virgin Orbit had, you know, a total of 1. 2 billion of funding from Richard
Branson go into it, which, you know, was exactly 1. 1 billion more than we had.
Um, so it was, you know, it wasn't a predetermined outcome by any stretch of
the imagination, but, you know, we, we, we bought a vehicle to market that,
that, uh, Really served the niche.
Well, and it was really innovative. And of course, middle the cost objectives
that were required to be successful. Yes.
Matt: Now, today, you made 50 launches. I think,
Beck: uh, 52, 52. Yep. Okay. That's it. [00:08:00] That's that's a sign of success.
When even I can't remember what number we're up to. So anyway.
Matt: Yeah, well, the statistics on, on the overall success rate was also very
high. Of the 52, I'm going to guess that 48 were successful.
Beck: Yeah. So the very first flight where we had a failure, uh, not due to, to
the launch vehicle was actually some third party telemetry that caused that.
And, and then throughout the, you know, the life of the vehicle, there's, there's
been a few other failures, but generally it's a very, very reliable vehicle.
Sure. Yeah.
Matt: The next phase for your company's development expansion, right, is the
Electron rocket is to small sets what the Neutron rocket is going to be to
constellations. And I remember hearing about that a few years back with some
excitement and, uh, I recall there was a video, you were eating your hat and
that, yeah, that was a part of a bet or something.
Beck: [00:09:00] Well, no, I mean, uh, so look for the longest time I said a
number of things that I, at the point in time I was resolute over one is I will
never do human space flight and I will never build a bigger rocket. Both those
things, uh, I had to repeal. Um, and I felt the only, the only fear thing to do was
to eat my head.So, you know, I ate my head.
Matt: Round it up and, uh, boy, okay. That, that sounds quite uncomfortable,
but,
Beck: uh, it was, it was terrible. It was one of the most unpleasant things that I
can remember. It would, it, uh, when, when we put it in the blender, it released
all of the. The gases and no doubt the manufacturing of the process.
And when I pulled the top of the blender off, there was, there's just like this
toxic cloud came out and I'm like, Oh God, I'm going to have to eat this. Yeah,
Matt: now that what sets apart the neutron rocket, it's a two stage and the
payload fairing. It is a Non [00:10:00] expendable. It doesn't shed it. It works.
I've heard the analogy It's it's a hungry hungry hippo kind of opens and releases
the payload and then closes So yes, and this will be a fully reusable rocket
Beck: Uh, first stage fully reusable.
Second stage, um, uh, is, is expendable. And, and I guess, um, so we, in, in
designing neutron, we had, we had the distinct advantage of, of two major
things. One, we'd already mastered the re entry of, uh, electron through the
Earth's atmosphere. And that's actually, you know, one of the most challenging
things to do for reentry is can you make the rocket survive reentry?
And can you put it on a trajectory and a course such that it's useful, uh, to, you
know, to land in a, in a particular point in, in, on the earth. So we really
mastered that with, with electron. Um, you know, we, we, uh, we're able to
passively reenter the vehicle, meaning, you know, no, no steerable aerodynamic
devices and land it within 400 meters of a splashdown target.[00:11:00]
So we really got that good. Um, and then the other advantage we had. Uh, for,
for Neutron is, uh, is, you know, we, we kind of stand on the shoulders of giants
with others who have, have, have really mastered that, that kind of propulsive
landing technologies. So you know, if you look at Neutron, it looks like a vastly
different rocket to what you would see on the pad today.
Um, that's because we had all of the advantage to learn all the lessons from, you
know, people Flying a rocket heaps and heaps, um, and also, you know, on, on
other, other past efforts to put something on the pad that is designed to go down
just as well as is designed to go up. And one of those things, as you rightly point
out, is that fishing the fairings out of the ocean.Um, and having a separate boat to go and do that is suboptimal. The most
optimal thing is to hold the fairings on the rocket and just bring them back
home. Um, you'll also notice that the second stage is, is deep within the first
stage. So the second stage doesn't hang out in the wind, if you will. Um, it's, it's
contained [00:12:00] within, in the entirety of the first stage.
And the reason why we did that is, is because the second stage is the only
disposable element of the vehicle. Um, so that needs to be, ironically, the
highest performing stage, also the cheapest and the lightest. So by putting it
inside the rocket, we can take all of the, all of the, the aerodynamic loads out,
but also most of the structural bending modes out, uh, and just have it kind of
hung in the stage, um, and make that tank super thin.
Which ultimately makes it super high performance and also, uh, really, really
cheap. So, you know, everything about Neutron has been, you know, learning
the lessons from what it takes to run a rocket company and also what it takes to,
to do reusability, uh, and putting it all together in, in one giant do over.
And, you know, not, not many times in your, in your life do you get to build one
rocket. That's a, a very rarefied air as it is. Um, but to get a do over and take all
the lessons you've learned over the last 20 years and put them back into the next
iteration, that's something pretty special.
Matt: Absolutely. Yeah.[00:13:00]
And going back to what you're saying about, uh, yes, standing on the shoulders
of giants getting started your, your company. I mean, you, you guys really did
get in pretty much on the ground floor of things. You were around to see so
many major developments in commercial space and so forth. So naturally, I
want to ask from your privileged perspective, what would you say have been
some of the Greatest developments that in commercial space and what they
brought into to space exploration.
And maybe give us a little teaser on what could be coming.
Beck: Yeah, well, I think I think I've been lucky to see a couple of things. I
think reusable rockets, um, kind of commercial reusable rockets have certainly
been 1. I think people forget that the space shuttle, uh, was was actually an
incredibly innovative vehicle.
You know, it landed. Back at the launch site under wings, um, and it was a
reusable rocket. Um, [00:14:00] now it wasn't a particularly good one from areusability standpoint, but nevertheless, um, you know, it, it, it really pioneered,
uh, reusability. And then you had commercial companies come along and, and,
and, uh, and stand on those shoulders of giants and do it commercially.
Uh, but what I would say that. Probably one of the biggest impact or biggest
kind of movers in the space industry in my time has been there, you know, for
the longest time there was always this kind of bit on the come, um, you know,
it's commercial space would solve problems in orbit that would be very valuable
for down here on earth.
Um, and there was always talk of like big constellations and all, and, you know,
lots of, uh, you know, commercial opportunities and all, but, but it was always a
bit thin on the ground. You know, there would be a little startup that would raise
some money and then put a couple of cube sets and all, but in coffin splatter
and, and, and whatnot, fast forward to today.
I mean, you have major, some of the most, most valuable companies in the
world [00:15:00] deploying their own space infrastructure, and these are not
natural owners of space infrastructure, uh, you know, like. Like, you know,
Apple and, uh, Amazon with their Kuiper project. Um, so, you know, if, if you
said, ask me, you know, 10, 20 years ago, would Amazon be putting up a mega
constellation low with all, but I think you'd have to squint pretty hard to see that
being a reality.
But what you're seeing now is, is like large corporations really utilizing space
for all the value it can create. And you know, Yeah. We, we've always talked
about the democratization of space, you know, from space turning from a
government domain to a commercial domain. Well, I can say that I've witnessed
that in my lifetime.
I have witnessed, you know, space being a government dominated domain to
now being a commercially dominated domain. And. You know, to answer your
question about things to come, I, I look, I think we're just getting started. Uh,
it's, it's literally, we've, we've, we've done, we've, we've rung up on a dial up
modem and we've just got our first email over the internet.
That's where we're at. And, uh, I [00:16:00] strongly believe that, you know, the
biggest thing to be done in space isn't even being thought of, let alone being
executed. But, you know, access to orbit, access to spacecraft and the ability to
build spacecraft has never been like this ever before. So it really is an exciting
time.Matt: Just, uh, as a shot in the dark here with the biggest thing, the rotating
space station in orbit.
Beck: May, maybe, maybe. I think, um, you know, humans base flight is, uh, is,
is certainly, you know, incredibly inspirational, uh, incredibly dangerous, um,
but incredibly inspirational. Uh, and, um, you know, I think that's not an
unreasonable kind of, uh, projection given that, you know, NASA is retiring the
International Space Station in 2030.
Um, and over, you know, their favor right now is, uh, is to. Procure commercial
space station services, not a government space station. You know, the next
space station in orbit is not going to be government. It's [00:17:00] going to be a
commercial platform. So that that's where you can really, you know, open the
aperture for things like space stations and orbiting, you know, orbiting hotels
and all that kind of, you know, crazy stuff.
I think that that's where it all starts.
Matt: Yeah. And now 2022 was a pretty banner year for your company. You
had the launch of the capstone mission. This Lunar Autonomous Positioning
System Technology Operations and Navigation Experiment. And this was done
with an Electron rocket, but also your Explorer platform, so.
Great. Provided the launch deployment services, that was. A pretty big mission.
Beck: It was a big deal. Yeah. It was actually the first Artemis mission. Um,
and yeah, those, those spacecraft were, were to go and try kind of that cislunar
orbit out for where, um, an orbiting, uh, outpost may, may be based in the
future.
Um, and that, that was, yeah, that was a big mission. I mean, I don't think
anybody could have thought that you could go [00:18:00] to the moon off a
little rocket. Um, and yeah, we had, we had to, we had to, you know, that took
a, took a lot of effort. Um, it was a big team for, for many years. You know,
developing that spacecraft, the rocket and the capability to do that.
I guess the really exciting thing is that, um, you know, now for some tens of
millions of dollars, you can go and visit the moon or asteroids or even other
planets. Um, so, uh, you know, from a planetary science perspective, um, it's,
it's super exciting. And, you know, um, we, we have two, two Mars missions
called Escapade.Uh, to spacecraft that we, we built for NASA that, uh, you know, that, that are
ready to go to Mars also. So, um, yeah, it's, it's an exciting time.
Matt: When is, uh, when is that mission expected to launch?
Beck: Uh, well, unfortunately, it was expected to launch here in a number of
weeks, but, uh, um, you know, the launch vehicle is not quite ready.
Um, uh, the provider of that vehicle is not quite ready. So it's, it's been, uh, it's
been delayed a [00:19:00] little bit, but, um, you know, hopefully, uh, hopefully
we can get it there, get it there shortly. And NASA will, you know, we, we, we
built the spacecraft and, and, you know, NASA because the, the launch and,
and, and operates it.
Matt: Yeah, well, delays do seem to be, uh, part of the, the expectation, isn't it?
Yeah. I mean, space is hard, they say this, and it's not just the technical
challenges, is it? Just getting things off the ground is also hard, yeah. Now,
yeah, so, the Neutron rocket, that is expected to be unveiled by 2025? Mm
hmm. And as I understand it, um, you also have plans in place for sending your
own astrobiology mission to Venus.
What's your take on that?
Beck: Yeah, well, I mean, uh, you know, I know we've only got 45 minutes. I
think we could, we could use 45 hours if we, you get me talking about Venus.
But, um, Uh, but, but fundamentally, um, you know, I'm, I'm very interested in
Venus. I think it's a [00:20:00] fascinating planet. Um, but, uh, I'm also
incredibly interested in trying to answer the question, are we the only life in the
universe or not?
And you know, if, if you take the scientific approach right now, um, we have no
evidence to, to, to prove that we are not, we, you know, that we're not the only
life in the universe. In fact, you know, that all the evidence is we are the only
life in the universe. Um, now I don't necessarily. I think that's true.
But in the absence of evidence that that is a scientific fact. Um, now Venus is
very interesting because it's sort of an altitude of about 50 kilometers in the
Venetian atmosphere. Um, at least it is an environment there that is, that is sort
of hospitable, hospitable enough for some, uh, particular life forms to exist.
And you know, Sarah Sager and her science team a number of years ago made a
discovery of phosphine, uh, in, in that, in that particular region. And currentlythe only known. known producer of phosphine is, is kind of life. So [00:21:00]
it's not a known, known to, you know, occur naturally as a, you know, as, as a,
um, as a gas.
So, uh, so, so really, um, you know, the Venus life finder mission is to, is to, uh,
you know, it's a purely philanthropic, Uh, nights and weekends project, but, um,
is, is to send a probe to Venus and we have about 120 seconds of measurement
time in the atmosphere, uh, to, to see if we can, uh, we can, we can actually
determine, you know, if there is life in that cloud band or not, um, and look, it's,
it's super high risk.
Um, it's only, uh, the thing that a commercial could do. You know, company
could do, um, but, uh, you know, I would, I would feel very sad if, um, you
know, I was lying on my deathbed and didn't have a crack at answering that
question. Because I think the flip side to that is that if, let's just say, um, you
know, hypothetically you go to Venus and you actually did prove, yes, there is
life in the clouds of Venus.
At that point though, the [00:22:00] next logical kind of, uh, you know, iteration
off that is, well, if life is in the clouds of Venus, it's most probably prolific
throughout the universe. I just think that's a really important question for
humanity to ask and try and answer.
Matt: Absolutely. Yeah. Now the, uh, escapade mission, that's the, uh, probes.
Yeah. That I'm curious about to there, it is going to investigate Mars's
magnetosphere.
Beck: Yep, absolutely. Yep.
Matt: Yeah. And the purpose of this mission, I assume is related to the ongoing
astrobiology, uh, efforts.
Beck: Yeah. And it's to try and, you know, determine, uh, and, and try and
understand the planet and, and all of the, you know, all of the kind of magnetic
anomalies and, and, uh, And fields with it within the planet, uh, and, and, you
know, really, really understand, uh, you know, help understand at least some of
the origins of the planet and what's happened over time.
And, uh, and of course, pave the [00:23:00] way for future missions.Matt: And I understand you've got a mission launching in just four days. And it
is, I, I'm probably butchering the pronunciation here, but, uh, Kineos killed the
Radiot star? Yes, yeah. Yes, well, yes, so, as I understand it, Kineos is the, uh,
provider of the satellites, or the manufacturer of the satellites.
So, yeah, are these, uh, is this a SATCOM mission, or?
Beck: Yeah, this, this is, this is a company is called Kinesis. It's a, um, uh, a
French company. And, um, uh, these, these are IOT, uh, spacecraft, uh, for
them. And we, you know, we've learned launched their first spacecraft, um, uh,
not so long ago. Um, and you know, this is the second of, uh, I think about five,
I believe launches that we have, uh, have, have for them.
And, you know, the, the, the name, um, You know, you'll notice, uh, is, is a
little bit and just, um, you know, we, we started that the very, very beginning
[00:24:00] of the, the program. Um, you know, we, we, we had to give the, you
know, the launch vehicle, a, um, a designator and we, we learned that that
designator would be, um, used at space command so they could trace track the
vehicle.
Um, and most people call them like serial number one, one zero, or, you know,
Some acronym or whatever, and, um, I, I, I could just, I just imagined like a
bunch of people at Space Force watching this thing on a tracking screen. So I
thought it would, wouldn't it be funny if we just called it what it is, and it's, and
we called it, it's a test.
So as it was tracking across the radar screens, it would be, it would, it would
just come up as it's a test. Um, and, uh, and we, we just continued to call our
missions. Um, you know, it's, it's such a serious business. Um, you got to have a
little bit of fun somewhere. So you'll notice that all of our launch names have,
uh, have a little bit of humor in them.
Matt: Yeah, well, I certainly have a fact that it does seem to be kind of a, an
industry thing. Um, your first, uh, retrieval attempt [00:25:00] using a helicopter
was called return to center. Yes. Yep. Any, any other fun and cheeky names that
sort of stand out?
Beck: Uh, well, flight three was, was, um, flight three was funny. It was named
after, um, you know, it was, it was kind of a, a play on the flight of the
concords.Um, and, uh, it was, it's, there's a song and, uh, related to that and we call the
vehicle it's business time because that was, you know, really a first commercial,
uh, you know, business time. Business, uh, you know, first, first commercial
flight. So we, you know, it was business time and, and, um, and yeah, no,
there's, there's been, there's been a whole, whole, whole bunch of them along the
way for sure.
Matt: Excellent. Yeah. Now this is going to sound, uh, maybe a little bit vague
because you, you spoke about the future of space flight and yeah, so much yet
to be accomplished. I would imagine. Yes. It's just the limits of the imagination
are the only real constraint there. But again, given your position, I, [00:26:00]
I'm wondering, what do you, what would you say you're looking forward to in
terms of future developments?
Like, what needs to happen?
Beck: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's a great question. So, uh, as, as I
look out and what we're trying to architect here as a, as a company, uh, is, is an
end to end space company. So we, we've spoken, you know, a bunch about
rockets and we've spoken a bunch about spacecraft, but rocket labs quite
unusual in the fact that, um, we do both.
So, uh, we, we're just as comfortable building a satellite and operating a satellite
as we are launching a satellite. And I think this is, this is where the businesses,
you know, in the industry is going. Absolutely. You know, the, the large
successful space companies of the future, uh, are not, not going to just look like
launch companies or just look like satellite companies.
They're going to be these, these vertically integrated end to end entities. And the
reason why, you know, I have so much confidence around that is, is you just,
you realize that, you know, the efficiency, um, when, when, when you do that,
because you know, a rocket is a giant [00:27:00] engineering compromise. A
satellite is a giant engineering compromise.
Um, and if you can remove those compromises, then you end up with a. Not
only a superior product, but a much lower cost product, um, or service. So, you
know, as, as rocket lab stands today, um, you know, we're, we're, we're deep in
that kind of integration. And, and I think what excites me the most is, is, uh, you
know, when neutron comes online, uh, we have the ability to build just about
any satellite at any scale and launch a satellite just You know, any kind of
satellite to just about anywhere at any scale, and, uh, this is the first time in
history that that that's all been under one roof.So I think that's, um, that that's a really interesting, um, you know, placed to
build something really big from
Matt: absolutely. Yeah. In fact, uh, looking at Your company's profile over the
years and seeing uh, end to end is uh, the proper term for it I I the term that
came to mind for me was one stop shopping.
Yep Yeah [00:28:00] Yep. Yeah, I certainly I certainly see the the value and the
wisdom in that now in terms of uh, Other things that are expected for the near
future Uh, you announced earlier this year that you were, that your company
was planning on reusing a retrieved electron first stage. So this is the first time
that a retrieved stage has been relaunched?
And yeah, any any idea when that is happening?
Beck: Yeah. So we sort of deprioritize that. Um, it became kind of obvious,
although although it's it's a nice, you know, a nice kind of goal to to to tick off a
box. And you know, we're all kind of, you know, a little bit OCD engineers over
here. The reality is that, um, we can either spend the resources of that recovery
team, uh, on on electron, uh, You know, refurbishing and, uh, getting, getting
electron booster ready to refly, uh, which, you know, in all the certification that
goes along with that, um, on an 8 million rocket, [00:29:00] uh, or we can apply
that team to just getting neutron to the pad faster, uh, on a 55 million rocket.
So, you know, economically, it just makes far better sense to apply your
resources, um, to the bigger prize, which is, which is neutron. Um, so getting
that to the pad, uh. And, and getting, you know, putting those reusable resources
on that is, is a far better use of that resource. Um, not to say, I mean, you know,
we, we have that, we have that stage sitting in the factory.
So, um, it'll, it'll make its way through the production line in due course, but it's
just, it's just not a priority for the company right now. We don't, you know, we,
we, uh, you know, we, we, we, we really don't need the. You know, the, the, the
extra margin that, that, that brings in that, in that product line, um, the more, the
more advantageous thing for us to do is, uh, is, is to continue to ramp
production for Electron and put all those resources on neutron.
Matt: Mm-Hmm. and your company is one of several, in fact, that have
emerged, uh, over the years that is currently. I do believe there is some
[00:30:00] hope, in fact, that they continue to sort of draw focus away from
SpaceX. Really sort of open up the space further right just to say not one majorcontractor But several and as I also understand you you currently have two
launch complexes one in Virginia And your primary one in New Zealand.
Do you envision? Expanding to have additional launch complexes in the future
or you pleased with the two
Beck: I look, um, a launch site is a giant cash burner. It's just a hole in a PNL.
So, um, I want the least number of launch sites possible. Um, uh, and, and I
always, always, uh, chuckle when I see companies, uh, You know, proposing
the whole business plan is around building a launch site and providing that as a
service because there is, there is no money to be made in launch sites.
They are, they are just cash consumers. So no, we want this, the smallest
number of launch sites possible. [00:31:00] Um, you know, the, the, the wallop
site is really unique because it's, um, uh, away from the busy Cape. Um, and the
Cape is a great site, but it's just pretty busy. I mean, you've, you've got, um, you
got obviously, uh, a number of launch companies there, you know, You know,
increasing the cadence, but also very large launch vehicles that cause you to
evacuate, um, large portions of the Cape.
So, uh, so much like we did down in New Zealand, as we just kind of built a
launch site and minded our own business, we're kind of doing the same at, um,
at Wallops as well. I mean, it is, uh, it is, it is really a jewel in, in, in the
Rangers crown, um, to have such a, such a site there that, um, That, um, really
is not, not busy.
And we, you know, we are responsible for the vast majority of all launches
down there to date, uh, at the moment, I should say. So, um, so that, you know,
that, that, that, that's a, that's a, you know, a real advantage.
Matt: And I'd be remiss if I didn't ask, uh, so looking at your, your, your
experience growing [00:32:00] up and your obvious interest.
Now there, there was some mention of a rocket bike. Pack and then a cruise
missile engine that you, you bought and repurposed. Um, yeah. So a rocket
bike, is that as cool as it sounds?
Beck: Well, I thought it was pretty cool at the time. I'm not sure I'd put a leg
over it these days, but, um, but at the time it, it seemed like a fantastic idea.
Um, and, uh, and, and look, it was, it was all in, um, All in, in kind of the early
phases of, of the career of my career and, and developing and building rocketengines. And once you build a rocket engine and you fire it a whole, a whole
bunch of times, it kind of gets a bit boring. So, uh, the, the, the next logical
thing was to see if I could ride it.
Um, and, uh, uh, so yeah, we did, did rocket bikes, did rocket bikes and rocket
packs and all those kinds of things. And, um, yeah, always, always. Um, but,
uh, I'll tell you what there is. There is nothing like a rocket bike. [00:33:00] I've
I've written a lot of things, but, um, there is, uh, there, there is nothing like, uh,
the feeling of acceleration on a rocket bike because, you know, if you, if you get
on a high performance motorbike.
Generally, uh, as you go faster, the acceleration decreases because, you know,
you've got more and more wind resistance, but on a rocket bike, um, your
acceleration increases because you're consuming so much of your fuel that the
bike is getting lighter and lighter and lighter. So, uh, the acceleration initially is
great, but it just keeps on getting better and better and better until you either run
out of fuel or chicken out.
Matt: Reminiscent of the rocket equation. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, but yeah,
you're not fighting against gravity. So it's kind of a positive
Beck: Yeah
Matt: but yeah in terms of of the companies that are likely to be Well
challenging spacex, which is just to say You know, making their presence felt in
space, um, do you feel there's anyone [00:34:00] that, uh, you know, people like
me should be on the lookout for and
Beck: yeah, look, it's a, it's a, it's a funny old, it's a funny old industry.
Um, there's a tremendous amount of aspirations and, and, and promises, um.
But actually execution is a bit thin on the ground. And, you know, as I
mentioned you before on small launch, we were tracking over 140 companies at
one stage, there's literally billions of dollars went into, into vehicles and yet, you
know, the electron vehicle was really the only one that emerged out of, out of
that whole group.
And I think if you, if you laid all the bits on the table and said, This little
company from New Zealand is going to be the one that breaks through. I think
most people would have been against that. Not, not, not for that. Um, and that
just goes to say that, um, you know, you can have all the money you want.Um, we, we had people that were significantly more well funded than us. In
fact, everybody was more well funded than us. You know, I, I [00:35:00]
likened, uh, you know, building a rocket to, like, running through a maze at
night. And, uh, you've gotta run super quickly, but at every dead end, you can't
just turn around and go back.
At every dead end, there's a giant cliff. So you have to run really quickly, but
make sure you don't fall off the cliff to your death, because that, that, that's what
it's like. Um, and, uh, you know, we've just been able, you know, through
through the way that we develop things and in our approach, been able to
navigate that maze, uh, pretty successfully.
And then, you know, if I look out, um, in the medium class of of launch
vehicles, there's a few developments going on there now. Uh, they're largely the
same players, uh, who tried to develop small launch vehicles, uh, and who
failed at that. So if you fail at a small launch vehicle, I'm not, I'm not convinced
that.
That you're going to be successful building a large one. It's just, it's just going
to, you know, just to consume more capital. So, you know, as I look out
amongst the launch companies, no, I don't, I think, I think it's, you know,
there's, there's very few people that, [00:36:00] that are in a position to, to
actually provide a, you know, a second alternative to the current providers.
Um, and then more, more widely in the industry, I would say, um, there's lots of
exciting stuff going on for sure. You know, once again, um, The industry is
littered with amazing ideas where people have got a great idea. They raise a
bunch of capital, they do a thing and then go broke. Um, and the industry is, is,
is, is full of very passionate people with passionate ideas, but kind of Not
always grounded in in commercial reality.
Like what? What is the market really, really need? There's a lot of instances
where people make cool things and then look for a market opportunity with the
cool thing rather than just staring at a giant hole and trying to plug it. Um, But,
you know, on the flip side, like I say, there's tremendous amount of
technologies, tremendous amount of really successful companies, uh, in the
space industry and, and, and growing and, and, um, you know, whenever you
flip over from being a government [00:37:00] dominated domain to a
commercial dominated domain, there's going to be successes and there's going
to be failures until things kind of, you know, shake out, um, and probably the, a
higher rate of failures, of course, than successes.Matt: In fact, I'm reminded of, uh, asteroid mining, space elevators, and yeah, a
lot of stations stations in orbit too. And it's like wonderful ideas, but maybe,
maybe the time is not timing's not right.
Beck: Yeah, but I mean, I don't want to be too hard on those ideas because I
think they're really important to push on.
Um, it's, it's very easy to just write something off. Um, but you know, Uh, at the
end of the day, you know, the way I look at things is, is you've got two risks that
you need to mitigate. Right? Uh, there's a market risk and there's a technology
risk. Um, I'm more than happy to take technology risks because, you know, I'm,
I'm, I'm good at technology and, and the team's good at technology.
We can solve problems. Not so willing to take market risks because, you know,
that, that's not something you can solve [00:38:00] with pizza and coffee. Um,
you If it doesn't exist, the market doesn't exist, you can build the best product on
the planet, but to off the planet, but if there's nobody wants it, then there's
nothing, there's no amount of engineering going to going to solve that problem.
Matt: And I, I have to apologize when the first time I began, uh, we began
corresponding, I, I had no idea you'd been nighted that was, uh, that was earlier
this year. Was it, was it not?
Beck: Yeah, no, just a, yeah, well, actually, technically, officially, like a week
ago, but, um, yeah, no, very, very, very odd, uh, experience and thing, for sure.
Matt: Mm hmm. And, uh, there, there was a ceremony and so forth, and an
award, a pendant, it looked like. Yeah.
Beck: Yeah. Like a, like a, yeah, like a bangal and, uh, donged over the head
with a sword. And like I say, all, all, all very odd. Um, but, uh, you know, uh, o
obviously, you know, very, very humbling, but I, I [00:39:00] really see it as a,
as a, you know, a, a reflection on, uh, you know, you know, the whole New
Zealand space industry and all the engineers and, and, and technologists that
have, uh, you know, that have, that have, that have helped created it.
These, these things are never one person, as I'm sure everybody knows.
Matt: Yeah, and yeah, in fact, it was part of a coinciding with King Charles's
birthday and conferring honors upon Entrepreneurs and innovators from New
Zealand. Oh, yeah. Well, I'm not surprised and that certainly sounds like a veryworthy thing to acknowledge Earlier you mentioned that human spaceflight was
something you would never do now.
Is that to say that? Perhaps. Well, you've reconsidered, uh, building larger
vehicles are. Have you given any thought to human spaceflight in the future? It's
something your company would do.
Beck: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it would be pretty silly to build a 13 ton
capable, you know, payload capable [00:40:00] vehicle and not make provisions
for human spaceflight.
Um, so, you know, the vehicle won't be human certified out of the chute, but it
will be human certifiable. So that, that affects like safety factors in your, in your
preparation. You know, your tanks and, and, and stuff like that. So hard code
stuff. Um, so, so yeah, absolutely. We want to make sure that, that it's, it's, it's
human certifiable.
Um, you know, right now, you know, reflecting back on, on market and market
opportunities right now, there's one destination and one customer. So you have
the International Space Station and NASA. Um, and, uh, you know, that, that
one customer is relatively well served. Um, you know, there's, there's kind of
one and a half viable ways to get there.
Um, and, uh, and, and, you know, one, one destination. So it's not clear to me
that there's a market opening for, for another capsule. Um, you know, right now,
however, uh, in the future, especially when, you know, space stations, you
know, go fully commercial, then I think there will be more destinations and
more customers.
So, uh, we, you know, we [00:41:00] just wanted to make sure that we, uh, we,
you know, we kept the door open for, um, you know, for, for any opportunity,
uh, that might present itself in the future. And if I'm going to eat a hat, I may as
well get all of the things out that I said that I was never going to do and just, just
do it in one instance.
Matt: Well, yeah, and I wish you luck in that, too. And, well, hopefully the next
hat in question, if you are, in fact, forced to eat another one, was gonna be, uh,
organic cotton.
Beck: Yeah. I've learned, I've learned not to be so resolute because the, you
know, the world, the world is a funny place. And, and, uh, you know, if, if you,
if you said 20 years ago, or even, you know, as when I was a young kid in alittle town in the bottom of New Zealand that, that, uh, it would even be having
this conversation, I would have laughed in your face.
So, um, you know, best not to be too resolute on your, on your ideas.
Matt: Well, that's good advice for us all. Well, sir, Peter, I want to thank you
for coming on here and talking to my listeners. I mean, [00:42:00] and I, as I
said, I'm really looking forward to seeing further developments from your
company. So thank you very much for coming on and speaking to us.
Beck: Thanks, Matthew. Great, great pleasure.
Matt: And to those who joined us here today, thank you for listening. And be
sure to tune in next time when we will be talking about the SETI paradox,
which is the final installment in our series about the resolutions to the Fermi
paradox. We'll also be taking a look at China's space program and how it's
evolved over time, as well as the Indian space program, both of whom have a
lot of exciting future missions ahead of them.
I'm Matt Williams, and this has been Stories from Space.